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post #1 of 34 Old 02-01-2019, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Panasonic Launches Lumix S1 and S1R Full-Frame Cameras with 4K/60P Recording

A full-frame sensor camera with 4K video has arrived to the Panasonic Lumix platform. The Lumix S1 and S1R Are the first full frame cameras from the company and they are also capable of recording exceptional video thanks to five axis stabilization, low noise at high ISOs, and the ability to record in 4K 60P for up to 15 minutes at a time. 4K/30P Recording has no time limit.

The S1R Incorporates a 47.3 megapixel full frame CMOS sensor and features a high resolution mode that delivers a 187 megapixel final image. Meanwhile, the S1 has a 24.2 megapixel full frame CMOS sensor. This camera will be able to output clean 4K 60P via HDMI, a feature that is coming soon via software upgrade (sold separately).

Both of these models utilize the dual stabilization approach that combines the five axis Body I.S. and to the two axis O.I.S. found in Lumix S series lenses. Panasonic calls this Dual I.S. 2.

Here is some information provided in a press release issued by Panasonic:

"High picture quality made possible by the first LUMIX full-frame mirrorless camera

Unprecedented picture quality and high descriptive performance LUMIX S1R

The LUMIX S1R incorporates a new 47.3-megapixel CMOS sensor without LPF (Low Pass Filter) to realize high resolution and descriptive performance. This sensor adopts an aspherical lens for the on-chip micro lens to enhance light condensation. Together with the optimum design to concentrate more incoming light onto the photodiode, it achieves both high resolution and highly efficient light condensation performance. This results in the realization of the industry’s highest level of 47.3-megapixel resolution* in the full-frame mirrorless cameras at high S/N ratio and maximum ISO 25600 high sensitivity. The large amount of digital signals is processed by the new high-speed, high-performance image processor Venus Engine to render images with breathtaking description in both photo and video.
"

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"High image quality, high sensitivity performance LUMIX S1

The LUMIX S1 employs a 24.2-megapixel CMOS sensor. The new Venus Engine, which is exclusively tuned for the full-frame camera, and its Multipixel Luminance Generation and Intelligent Detail Processing realize natural, high-resolution expression while suppressing color moiré. Three-dimensional color control improves the color reproduction of both bright and shadow areas. This results in natural, true-to-life images from low to high sensitivity. Taking advantage of sufficient light condensation, the LUMIX S1 boasts a wide dynamic range and reproduces sharp images with exceptional clarity. Noise is minimized even when shot at maximum ISO 51200 high sensitivity. It is an ideal camera to use especially in low-light situations.

An AR coating applied on the sensor of both LUMIX S1R/S1 minimizes ghost and flare even in backlighting. In combination with the high-quality LUMIX S Series lenses based on the L-Mount, this further enhances the potential of the camera.

Plus, the LUMIX S1R/S1 integrates the Body I.S. (Image Stabilizer) for powerful handshake correction. Panasonic developed an algorithm that precisely calculates shake information acquired not only from a gyrosensor, but also from the image sensor and accelerometer sensor. This enables more accurate shake detection and compensation, making it possible to use a 5.5-stop slower shutter speed*1. Combining the Body I.S. (5-axis) in the camera and the O.I.S. (Optical Image Stabilizer, 2-axis) in the LUMIX S Series lens, the 5-axis Dual I.S. 2 compensates for larger movements that were conventionally uncontrollable.

Maximizing both O.I.S and B.I.S. is highly beneficial in telephoto shots and in adverse situations, such as in low-light or with one-handed shooting with a 6-stop slower shutter speed*2. The 5-axis Dual I.S. 2 works for both photo and video recording, including 4K. The Body I.S. compensates for camera movement even when other L-Mount lenses without O.I.S. are used.

Taking full advantage of its high-resolution sensor, the LUMIX S1R/S1 provides a High Resolution mode that faithfully reproduces precise details to be saved as beautiful, highly realistic RAW images. Eight consecutive images are automatically shot while shifting the sensor using the Body I.S. (Image Stabilizer) mechanism and synthesized into a 187-megapixel equivalent (16,736 x 11,168-pixel) image for LUMIX S1R and 96-megapixel equivalent (12,000 x 8,000-pixel) image for LUMIX S1 by the new Venus Engine, which boasts high-speed signal processing. This mode is suitable for taking natural landscapes or fine arts with delicate details. This magnificently high resolution photo is ideal for landscape photography of stationary subjects using a tripod.

However, it can also be used in situations where moving subjects are included in the scene, by switching the sub mode.

The HLG*3 Photo mode is a whole new style of photo expression that Panasonic proposes. It provides a wider dynamic range to reproduce light and shadow with more natural contrast. The HLG Photos can also be produced as an HSP file*4 with compressed high-brightness signals in stunning 8K resolution (7,680 x 4,320 in 16:9, with LUMIX S1R) or its full resolution (5,888 x 3,312, in 16:9, with LUMIX S1) in addition to JPEG/RAW files. It excels in the expression of lights, such as sparkling starlight or glaring sunlight. The user can playback these vibrant images on the latest Panasonic HLG-compliant 4KTV via HDMI cable connection or other HLG-compliant devices. It is also ideal for photo presentations by photographers.

The high-precision shutter unit offers the highest shutter speed at a maximum 1/8000 second to capture spur-of-the-moment, fast moving subjects and to use a high-speed lens with a fully open aperture even outdoors for impressive defocusing. The external flash can be synchronized with the industry’s fastest shutter speed of a maximum 1/320 second.*5*6

*1 Based on the CIPA standard [Yaw/Pitch direction: focusing distance f=50mm, when S-X50 is used.]
*2 Based on the CIPA standard [Yaw/Pitch direction: focusing distance f=200mm, when S-R70200 is used.]
*3 “HLG (Hybrid Log Gamma)” is an international standard (ITU-R BT.2100) HDR format.
*4 “HSP” is an HDR picture format using HLG format video technology.
*5 The guide number decreases when the shutter speed is set to 1/320 of a second.
*6 As a Digital Single Lens Mirrorless Camera, as of February 1, 2019."


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"Outstanding video recording performance in a full-frame camera

4K 60p video recording for more creative freedom LUMIX S1R

The LUMIX S1R is a camera designed and developed to boast exceptional performance in photography, yet is capable of 4K 60p video recording.*2 To elevate the video expression even more, a variety of effects are available for video recording.

Exceptional video recording performance for professional videographers LUMIX S1

The LUMIX S1 features outstanding video performance for professional videography with 4K 60p recording. It realizes a crop factor of 1.0x in 4K 30p/25p*1/24p, which means that the user can record video in the original viewing angle of the lens. There is no recording time limit*3 for both 4K 30p/25p*1/24p and Full-HD video. Notably, the CMOS Sensor with high sensitivity on the LUMIX S1 achieves full-pixel readout for an excellent S/N ratio. The HDR (High Dynamic Range) video recording is available, which reproduces both the bright parts and dark parts of an image, making it look just like human eyes see it. The camera records video with a designated gamma curve compatible with ITU-R BT.2100, and you can now choose Hybrid Log Gamma (HLG) in Photo Style. The LUMIX S1 further expands its potential with a firmware update including 4:2:2 10-bit 4K 30p internal video recording and 4K 60p/50p HDMI output as well as V-Log, with a Software Upgrade Key (to be sold separately) following soon in 2019.

As a camera from Panasonic that has been overstepping the limit of video performance in digital cameras, a host of functions are available on the LUMIX S1R/S1. The High Speed Video lets users record slow motion video in 4K (maximum 60 fps and FHD (maximum 180 fps).

For the terminal, an HDMI Type A is provided. Plus, a cable lock holder for the HDMI cable is included in the LUMIX S1R/S1 to prevent unplugging trouble on location. LINE input is also supported by a 3.5-mm microphone jack. This makes it possible to input sounds from an external audio device, for more efficient video production. A 3.5-mm headphone jack is also available. In addition, it complies with the Microphone Adaptor DMW-XLR1 (sold separately), which is a plug-in type adaptor for an XLR microphone to record high-quality stereo sound. It is ideal for lip-sync recording. Dedicated switches allow direct, quick control. MIC, LINE and CONDENSER MICROPHONES are switchable.

*1 PAL area only.
*2 Maximum 15 minutes in 4K60p and unlimited recording time in Full HD until the SD Memory Card becomes full or the battery runs out.
*3 Maximum 29 minutes 59 seconds in 4K60p until the SD Memory Card becomes full or the battery runs out.
- When the ambient temperature is high or continuous recording is performed, the camera may stop the recording to protect itself. Wait until the camera cools down (*2*3)."

Mark Henninger
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Last edited by imagic; 02-02-2019 at 11:00 AM.
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post #2 of 34 Old 02-02-2019, 07:27 AM
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I'm looking forward to seeing how the thing autofocuses in real world and not scene setup shooting.
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post #3 of 34 Old 02-02-2019, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
4K/60P recording from a full-frame sensor has arrived to the Panasonic Lumix platform.
Strictly true, but a lie really. 4K/60P is APS-C crop (S1). see Tony Northrup

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post #4 of 34 Old 02-02-2019, 09:23 AM
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Between the 50% crop in 4K and the continued use of CAF, I'm not sure how successful this camera will be.
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post #5 of 34 Old 02-02-2019, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Strictly true, but a lie really. 4K/60P is APS-C crop (S1). see Tony Northrup http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGFSxbLxnFQ
Post edited, I see how that is, I did not catch it at first.

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post #6 of 34 Old 02-02-2019, 11:31 AM
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Post edited, I see how that is, I did not catch it at first.
In their previous video they said the S1R had 1.5X crop at 4K/60p (and the S1 was true full-frame). It now seems the S1R is 'nearly' full-frame, but with line-skipping!
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post #7 of 34 Old 02-02-2019, 11:58 AM
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It's just Beta #1 . There will be others to follow.

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post #8 of 34 Old 02-02-2019, 12:12 PM - Thread Starter
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This must mean that Sony has a full frame 4K/60P camera right around the corner, probably the one that actually does everything everybody wants. I mean, this can't go unanswered, right?

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post #9 of 34 Old 02-02-2019, 01:17 PM
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This must mean that Sony has a full frame 4K/60P camera right around the corner, probably the one that actually does everything everybody wants. I mean, this can't go unanswered, right?
Sony have had 4K/60P in 10-bit and 16-bit raw flavors before anyone else, more than 5 years. It's just that they have a high end cinema line and now a 4K/60P broadcast line to protect. We can speculate when and if they will answer with 4K/60P in the A series but they have had plenty of time and opportunity if that had been their intention.

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Sony and then Panasonic charging for software unlocking of certain features is a abominable trend. Screw them.
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post #11 of 34 Old 02-02-2019, 02:22 PM
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L mount vs MFT GH5 6K 5184x3456 3:2 5K video









It looks like the GH5 is the winner !
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post #12 of 34 Old 02-02-2019, 04:41 PM
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Sony and then Panasonic charging for software unlocking of certain features is a abominable trend. Screw them.
Sony came out with the first 4K cinema camera in 2012 with many unfinished details, the PMW-F55. At about the same time, they also came out with a PMW-F5 which was similar but only HD resolution. Sony made available continuous free firmware updates to the F55 that transformed the camera remarkably. Along the way, someone came up with a hack for the F5 that unlocked 4K recording. Sony quickly came up with a firmware update disabling the newly unlocked 4K but announced a paid firmware that would for $995 again unlock 4k on the F5 into an officially sanctioned 4K. That trend has now spread throughout Panasonic and Sony. It's really pathetic on Sony's newest cinema cam the Venice. Concurrently they shut down their popular community website for film artists, fired the staff who were providing support and alienating throngs of professionals. Except for James Cameron, I don't know of a single DP who owns or would consider the Venice when there were many of us who purchased the F55 which had been widely adopted and is still in use today for network productions as varied as The Crown, Big Bang Theory, The Blacklist, Black Mirror, Tomorrowland (the first movie in HDR), Ex Machina, Mom, Two and a half Men, on and on... to the Ryder Cup. They will never get back that group they abandoned, it's too easy to get community support through Red, Arri, BMD.

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And all the way down the rung from the F55 which is still considered a notch above their own FS7Mk2 by today's standards, this practice applies to almost everything I have got my hands on e.g. the FS7, FS5, and all the variants of their 1" sensor camcorders. You either bite the bullet and pay up, switch to a new camera that has the key features you need and missing on the older model or use something else altogether. That's what I have learned using Sony.
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You guys are too harsh on the S1. For years people in this forum have been asking for 4k/60 - here it is! And just a bunch of complaints. Also the S1 has REAL 10-bit HLG, unlike Sony non-compliant 8-bit HLG. And in-body stabilization, reasonable menu design, and good ergonomics. All things that people in this forum have been asking for. I'm not saying it's a winner, only that it's a credible product and I eagerly await the DxO measurements and Slashcam.de resolution tests.
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post #15 of 34 Old 02-03-2019, 05:14 AM
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You guys are too harsh on the S1. For years people in this forum have been asking for 4k/60 - here it is! And just a bunch of complaints. Also the S1 has REAL 10-bit HLG, unlike Sony non-compliant 8-bit HLG. And in-body stabilization, reasonable menu design, and good ergonomics. All things that people in this forum have been asking for. I'm not saying it's a winner, only that it's a credible product and I eagerly await the DxO measurements and Slashcam.de resolution tests.
But nobody on this forum has been asking for a Leica $5495 16-35 lens. Granted the Panasonic lenses being released for this camera aren’t quite that expensive, but a Panasonic 50mm lens for nearly $2300? These lenses are more costly than most are accustomed to. Every time I see that Leica price I have to look twice to make sure I’m not seeing things.

And let’s not forget that Panasonic already gave us 4K60p and 10bit HLG in the GH5...and with lens prices for that system that didn’t take your breath away.
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Originally Posted by Tom Roper View Post
Sony have had 4K/60P in 10-bit and 16-bit raw flavors before anyone else, more than 5 years. It's just that they have a high end cinema line and now a 4K/60P broadcast line to protect. We can speculate when and if they will answer with 4K/60P in the A series but they have had plenty of time and opportunity if that had been their intention.
Those 4K60p products are much larger cameras with proper cooling and probably more computing power. The A series cameras are limited by their thermal envelope, and that is why they can't do what those bigger cameras can. It has nothing to do with Sony "protecting" anything.
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post #17 of 34 Old 02-03-2019, 06:39 AM
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You guys are too harsh on the S1. For years people in this forum have been asking for 4k/60 - here it is! And just a bunch of complaints. Also the S1 has REAL 10-bit HLG, unlike Sony non-compliant 8-bit HLG. And in-body stabilization, reasonable menu design, and good ergonomics. All things that people in this forum have been asking for. I'm not saying it's a winner, only that it's a credible product and I eagerly await the DxO measurements and Slashcam.de resolution tests.
The GH5 can already do 4K60p, so it is nothing new. The main difference with the newer cameras is that they have higher pixel counts, and that pushes the processor a bit too much, hence the crop.
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Micro four thirds is 2x crop so they are realy similar in this respect.
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post #19 of 34 Old 02-03-2019, 08:58 AM
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Those 4K60p products are much larger cameras with proper cooling and probably more computing power. The A series cameras are limited by their thermal envelope, and that is why they can't do what those bigger cameras can. It has nothing to do with Sony "protecting" anything.
Panasonic, Olympus and BMD are all doing 4K60 with similar thermal envelopes. Sony have leadership in crippling camera features, not even a question about that.

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Those 4K60p products are much larger cameras with proper cooling and probably more computing power. The A series cameras are limited by their thermal envelope, and that is why they can't do what those bigger cameras can. It has nothing to do with Sony "protecting" anything.
Not so sure about proper cooling. I have heard that the new Panasonics are also prone to overheating, despite their large bodies, and have a warning about shooting continuously for more than 20 minutes or so at 4K60p. Don’t hold me to that precise time, but there was a finite time period.
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But nobody on this forum has been asking for a Leica $5495 16-35 lens. Granted the Panasonic lenses being released for this camera aren’t quite that expensive, but a Panasonic 50mm lens for nearly $2300? These lenses are more costly than most are accustomed to. Every time I see that Leica price I have to look twice to make sure I’m not seeing things.

And let’s not forget that Panasonic already gave us 4K60p and 10bit HLG in the GH5...and with lens prices for that system that didn’t take your breath away.
Leica has always been overpriced, but who cares? It's just an option. Good full frame lenses can be expensive. For a long while the top DxO-rated full frame lens was the Zeiss Otus 55mm f1.4, which is $4k. If the Panasonic 50 can match that, it's a great deal. The best lens I ever shot with was the Nikon 200mm f2.0 for $6k and the action shots I got from that lens were unbelievable and (to me) totally worth it. There's no way any picture from any m43rds camera+lens could touch those pictures. If you want low light or dynamic range, you go full frame and don't ever look back.
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post #22 of 34 Old 02-04-2019, 10:03 AM
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There's no way any picture from any m43rds camera+lens could touch those pictures. If you want low light or dynamic range, you go full frame and don't ever look back.
Not necessarily. My brother is an award winning photographer, his pictures adorn billboards, chamber of commerce ads, city buses. He accepted his latest award with a Nikon D800 around his neck, but the winning photo he took with his iPhone.
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Tom, it is NECESSARILY. I'm not saying you can't take great pictures with bad cameras. Heck, one of my all time favorite pictures was taken with a homemade pinhole camera! I'm saying that if you want low light/high shutter speed, or you need dynamic range, full frame is the king. Also I was very careful to say "....could touch those [action] pictures". I guarantee your brother's award-winning iphone picture wasn't an action shot of a judo throw, a leaping football catch, or an elite breastroke swim. Right?
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Panasonic, Olympus and BMD are all doing 4K60 with similar thermal envelopes. Sony have leadership in crippling camera features, not even a question about that.
The thermal envelope is determined by the processor and the heatsink the body represents. Sony processors run hotter to handle the same data throughput, that is why they have heating issues on the A series bodies. What Panasonic and Olympus are doing is irrelevant, since they have their own processors and different bodies. Sony have already admitted that their processors are no where near as thermally efficient as Panasonic's, and that is why they cant match the GH series performance at any given time.

It is well known that the most of the A series cameras overheat readily even when doing 4K30p. Trying to do 4K60p would make that problem doubly worse, and that is why they can't shoot at those frame rates. The bigger pro video cameras can because they have larger bodies and active cooling, which means that the processor can do more work without throttling due to overheating.
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Not so sure about proper cooling. I have heard that the new Panasonics are also prone to overheating, despite their large bodies, and have a warning about shooting continuously for more than 20 minutes or so at 4K60p. Don’t hold me to that precise time, but there was a finite time period.
Right. They have more pixels on their sensor. More data to handle means more strain on the processor and that means it runs hotter. Presumably the higher pixel count pushes the processor over the edge with the new cameras.
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post #26 of 34 Old 02-04-2019, 01:41 PM
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Not necessarily. My brother is an award winning photographer, his pictures adorn billboards, chamber of commerce ads, city buses. He accepted his latest award with a Nikon D800 around his neck, but the winning photo he took with his iPhone.
Content is king, when the image presents itself you capture it with what you have. But, that award winning photo would have been better technically if it had been taken with the D800 rather than an iPhone.
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post #27 of 34 Old 02-15-2019, 07:02 AM
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Cinema5d measures the S1 dynamic range at 12.2 stops using HLG, "which is only topped by the Blackmagic URSA Mini Pro". For comparison, GH5S HLG was measured at 9.9 stops.

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post #28 of 34 Old 02-15-2019, 08:41 AM
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What ever you think of these new cameras, that’s an impressive DR.
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post #29 of 34 Old 02-15-2019, 09:37 AM
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"For comparison, GH5S HLG was measured at 9.9 stops."

The BMPCC4K has the same sensor as the GH5s, and the chart measures the DR as 11.6 stops. So, what is going on here? HLG is the problem, as opposed to V Log L?
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post #30 of 34 Old 02-15-2019, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post
"For comparison, GH5S HLG was measured at 9.9 stops."

The BMPCC4K has the same sensor as the GH5s, and the chart measures the DR as 11.6 stops. So, what is going on here? HLG is the problem, as opposed to V Log L?
Not sure why HLG would result in a lesser DR. Perhaps the issue is more the result of measurement discrepancies or the result of differences in the electronics (beyond the sensor) that accounts for this? Who knows, but it is odd.
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